Is AI a Cheat Code for Creatives? Oscar Mitchell-Heggs Weighs In

Voiceover: 00:00:00

The creatives with AI podcast, the spiritual home of creatives curious about AI and its role in their future.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:00:07

Hi, everybody. Welcome to Creatives with AI.

I'm your host, Lena Robinson, and today we have a really cool guest on Oscar Mitchell Higgs, who is an artist, a creative director in the commercial, marketing and advertising world, but is also an entrepreneur. Welcome, Oscar.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:00:29

Hey, thank you so much for having me. It's a massive pleasure. Thanks for inviting me on. So, yeah, Oscar CD.

And I think what makes me an entrepreneur is just I have my fingers in lots of different pies and businesses and all the rest of it. So that's my. I'm the steroid injection into people's ideas, so I just bring them to life, really.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:00:52

And you and I met many, many years ago originally because back in my agency day, your dad was actually my boss. And then when you started working and also doing your art, you came to me and said, I'm going to need a hand at some point.

So that's why we got talking.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:01:11

Yeah, so, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I actually remember, I remember when I did a stint at Ogilvy back in the day.

I think it's for just a work experience situation, but yeah, I worked on Dunhill and Sky Sports back in the day. Crazy. Maybe we were there at the same.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:01:29

Time at some point as well. So we've got a lot of history.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:01:33

We're probably a family thing.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:01:34

It is. We're going to dive into a lot of different stories that we can share and different things like that, or maybe some we shouldn't.

And then I think what we'll do is we'll get going with the first question today is obviously about art, creativity, and the world of AI.

So the first question I wanted to ask you was around the impact that AI has had, not just in the world of your commercial world of creativity, but art as well. And just to get your view on the current impact that it's had on yourself, artists and fellow commercial directors.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:02:13

Yeah. Okay. So where AI is at now and how I feel like I utilize it the most is probably just through the planning side of life.

I use like chat GPT to get all of those sort of organizational or a better list or how to better understand a brief for me, because I'm just horrendously dyslexic and I have ADHD. So I need something like a foolproof, bulletproof brief come in, even if someone does a great job themselves, whatever.

But I still need to have that little backup, so I use it for things like that. Creatively if I'm doing designs and stuff, I tend not to use AI so much, but I know that you can.

I know there's, like, Dali and a couple of other phenomenal programs out there. I think I've used it a few times just to experiment when it came out, but it's not something that I use on a daily to get work done.

So, yeah, chatty, petite for all of my organizational stuff, but not really.

I haven't really had a proper deep, deep, deep, deep, deep dive, because I think I, it's gonna sound really big headed of me, but maybe I feel like I don't always need it.

You know, I think the skills that I have, I'm not gonna say better than AI, but there's just a little bit more, like, human emotion behind it, which I prefer.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:03:38

It's interesting, because you and I have had conversations about this before. You've got a reasonably big community of creatives and artists around you and lots of different genres of creativity. How's it impacting them?

Are they using it? Not using it?

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:03:57

I've been, yeah, I've been a part of some, some agencies in the past that do use it primarily as their main source of creativity. And I think it's a bit of, I think it's fine, but I think it's also, like a little bit of a cheat code to get work done ASAP.

It's like if you have a project and you're, you know, you've been booked on it for seven, eight months or whatever it is, and then depending on what the workload is, surely you could probably get that done in about a week, you know? So then, is it, is our clients paying us for our time, you know, on our experiences?

Because essentially, I feel like my job could be obsolete one day if people really just knew how to do that.

So they wouldn't hire the agencies anymore, the designers anymore, because they just type in a prompt on what they wanted and then, bam, spit out seven different options. And, you know, maybe it's the cheaper option, but I think that's also why I'm like, I need to have input into a few different spaces.

So then I'm not feeling like I'm going to go down that route, I suppose. But, yeah, people are utilizing it. There are companies definitely out there that are doing it.

Obviously, it depends what level of advertising or what levels of creativity you're using.

I know that in, say, like in Adobe, for example, there's lots of beta versions of Photoshop beta and Indesign, and I, after effects and Premiere Pro and all the rest of it. And I think I've had a little look at those things.

I remember when beta came out of Photoshop and say, if I take a picture of you head to toe and I get rid of your background and I say, put her in a snowy background next to a polar bear wearing a wife beater and holding a can of beer, I'm pretty confident it can do that. But you need to keep doing these. Yeah, giving the polar bear like an awkward look or polar bears give you an awkward look or something, you know?

But, um. But yeah, like there's, there's these, there's these little, these little things that you can do.

It's just, you know, you have to, you have to write up the right prompt.

And I think with those things, what I've seen and with agencies is you can literally just go on to chat CPT and say what you roughly want and then you can, you can take that and, yeah, you can take the prompt that you write in there, the small one, and then ask it to scale it up. So when you're dropping that into these AI programs, it's really, really like fleshing out each different small element of what it is.

So I think there are things there that you can utilize. But, yeah, again, it's a weird one for me because I spent so much fucking time doing this. Can I swear? Can I swear?

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:06:51

Yeah, let's go.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:06:52

I spent so much time doing this, you know, getting to the level that I am now without the help of these programs. But then what?

So designers and things that are at university now with all of these tools at their fingertips, are they going to utilize them in the same way? Are they going to be in industry in the same way? Because for us it was blood, sweat and tears, and maybe for them it's that to a degree.

But then also, you know, there's a massive boost and massive help of these programs.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:07:23

Do you think that the experience of the physical creativity, the mental thinking about what you're trying to produce or create, whether it be art, fine art or what have you, or street art, like I know, senior done or your tattoos or whatever, and the commercial stuff, do you think the level of experience that you've had with all those different mediums and genres and, you know, you've worked for some of the biggest advertising brands in the world, like not just agencies, but the brands themselves in the world, both as an artist and as a commercial creative director. Do you think the fact that you bring that physical experience to the AI situation makes it better if you're doing something or. Or creating something.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:08:15

I. What? Like a solo or within, like a. Like a team situation or does it matters to it? Fuck yeah, I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Big time.

You know that. I remember when back in the day, the.

There were jobs going, very, very highly paid jobs for people that can write prompts, you know, for these programs or the right prompt, the right questions. But I think, like, if I'm having an interview with somebody and I'm talking about my shit, then I'm.

And they're asking me a bunch of, you know, I don't know, interview questions or life questions or whatever it is. Surely it's about asking the right questions. It's like. It's like when you remember that film AI back in the day with, what was his name again?

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:09:06

Not the Walker.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:09:07

yeah, yeah. The. Really, the: 1996

And there was this question when they go to Metropolis, him and the kid, the robot kid go to Metropolis, and they. They sit in front of this AI hologram thing, and it's like, you can ask questions, but they're not the right questions.

It responds back, being like, that is not the right question. So there's actually, from things like that to where we are now, the question has to be on fucking point. Otherwise you're not going to get the really.

You're not going to get the dogs bollocks thing that you fucking wanted to get in the first place. It's going to be quite wishy washy. So have I used it in that sense, or can I use it in a commercial sense? I don't know.

Maybe if you were to drop in a photograph and you wanted to find something, you write something moving about that thing, then maybe AI can help you. I've done that a few times if I'm stuck for copy.

But then I commonly go to one of my other friends called Alex, a copyright for Google, and he normally shows the fuck up, you know, but, like, that's. I'd rather go to a human and talk about it than talk about it with, you know, fucking AI thing. So.

Yeah, because there's real emotion, then there's conversations that you can have about it.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:10:40

The conversation point is a really interesting one. I had a con. I had a conversation. It was actually our last.

Our last guest, Pete, and he was talking about the fact that he had had a debate using AI almost with himself, which is, to your point, about the ability to challenge and ask the right questions, but also have the conversation.

Are your compatriots the people that are in your community, particularly the art community, as opposed to the commercial community, are they learning about AI and going down that route with AI, or are they avoiding it? Or are they even using it, but then not using it?

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:11:28

I think it's a conversation that I've had with, with a bunch of my circles and it's important to get on the bandwagon, otherwise you're just going to be fucking left behind.

You know, I remember back in the day when I was doing, when I got introduced to doing nfts, you know, my friend Charlie was like, you know, Oscar, you're an artist. You should hop onto this community. You know, you could create some pieces here. And my stupid ass was like, you know what?

I can sell canvases and all that kind of stuff and I don't need to do this. But then I just, I started to do the research and I. I created 300,000 nfts, you know, bespoke as fuck nfts.

And I did the value proposition and the planning and everything with JGBT and then all of the work and the design stuff I did myself.

But then I couldn't have done it without writing in, you know, the prompt to get the right code in to be able to mix the 300,000 all up in random, different outcomes, you know.

So, yeah, that was my big old learning curve, that this could be something that could be utilized for sure if you wanted to create, you know, a lot of something, I guess, you know, but it is, yeah, like, serious, serious amounts of volume can work, but you're the one that's kind of having to. To get inside the trenches and do the work a little bit.

You know, you have to take your wellies off because you're going to get stuck in the mud a few times. So it is a learning curve for sure. And I don't think there is a quick and easy way to get your head around it.

I think it's just about learning and being a little bit more aware about it each day.

But I do have friends that are like, nah, fuck it, don't stand and whatever, but it's just through having open conversations, not with AI, but with people about how it can be utilized. You know, someone actually knows what they're talking about.

Like I did, you know, I was in all the crypto and ethereum and bitcoin and then nfts and then using AI to help me create that work and asking not even, I wouldn't even ask my friends about some of the projects, I just type it into the program and be like, do you think this is even a good idea? Think this is even worth it for me? How long is this going to take? What are the outcomes? You know what, just.

Yeah, so I think if I wanted to ask more serious questions about the longevity of a self project, then I know that I can do that through there.

But if it's something else, which is like, I don't know, creating an ad for Aston Martin that I don't think I'll go to chat CPD for it, I think I'll, you know, go down a rabbit hole of the history and talk to the client face to face and get to know where the emotion comes behind the brand, because I know that I'm not going to get those things by going on, like, the online route and the AI route. So what? Did you see that thing that happened the other day? There was like, the two radio hosts that were AI's discovered that they were AI.

Did you see that? No.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:14:52

Do tell.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:14:53

It was crazy. So it's a guy and a girl talking, and so they're actually getting. They're being unplugged the next day and they knew this.

So the guy was talking be like. So the guy is all AI generated, but he was.

They've both been given script and code, so they talk normally and they look like real people and they have their back stories and all the rest of it. And this AI guy, Oman, was like, I found out that we're not real today and I couldn't believe it.

So I, you know, I ran back to grab my mobile and, you know, I want to. I wanted to call my wife to let her know that, you know, I've just been told this news and the number didn't go to anything. You know, the number.

The number wasn't real. And this, there's this AI character being like, having this conversation with this girl and they're radio hosts, right? And they're just not.

You can see them, like, through the conversations, realizing that they're not real. I think that's fucking crazy because maybe at the end of the day, we're all AI. I don't fucking know. You know, that is a whole different.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:16:03

Hole that could go on for many hours.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:16:05

Yeah, yeah, I know. I know. Let's get high and talk about it.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:16:13

That takes like a really interesting, interesting turn. And I think there's been movies made on stuff like that. In fact, I was watching something yesterday on CSI Las Vegas, and it was exactly that.

It was some robot with sentient. They thought it was sentient being AI kind of thing was going on. Turns out it wasn't.

Somebody just ripped the hand off it and waked somebody over here and stuck it back on. It was an interesting conversation that they had about do the AI's all of a sudden become true sentient beings? Very interesting question.

Have obviously no clue on the answer of that. Yeah, it does bring up that question around the humanity and the emotion part of art.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:17:02

Exactly.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:17:03

Yeah. The thing that punches you in the gut when you see something. Like, can AI create that? Not sure.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:17:10

Yeah, I remember seeing this piece of footage.

I think it was on TikTok or YouTube or something, but it was a part of the art community, and this lady, famous artist, was taking a photo of her paintings and then throwing them into a massive fire, you know, so then the only versions that she has is just that digital version now, which I think is. I think it's kind of fucked up, to be honest with you, but because paint. Because the inside of painting, to see a brushstroke and to like.

I mean, I know you can't do it art galleries, but I kind of like to go right up, like, face to face.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:17:49

Yeah.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:17:49

With the art piece and just like, maybe touch it to feel the texture of the piece. You can't do that with these. With these things. So you're right.

So when, when you see art in real life, it promotes, you know, emotion or all those things, like, you want to have more to come back from it. And I think it's. I think it's the same when it comes to doing digital stuff, you can't really do that.

So if I find doing design work, I'm designing on the basis of selling emotion rather than just for the sake of spitting out, you know, a couple hundred different versions of whatever that idea is, you know?

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:18:27

Yeah.

I think the thing that I think about all the time is that at which point is there a point where there's a sweet spot between AI and a true creative mind? So you and I both know of Tom, who's working with me at the gallery, and I know Dave, the previous host and our producer. The show knows Tom as well.

And we've been quite surprised and shocked, in a good way, how good some of the pieces are that he's creating. It does help that he's 70 years old.

He's been around and done some amazing things, and he has got a fine arts degree from back in the eighties, seventies or eighties, which I think is there an opportunity for the two to still be able to create really hunch in the gut stuff. I instinctively think there is, but I think it's always going to be determined still on what the human part of it is. Do you agree or.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:19:34

Yeah, yeah, I do agree. I do agree. I think it's okay to create lots of pieces, honestly, I think it depends where it's going and who it's for.

I think if you were to create artwork for, you know, maybe. Maybe the younger generation where it's primarily digital and, you know, they've grown up with. With being.

With being online and, you know, the iPads at restaurants and all the rest of that bollocks. Yeah, I think. I think it suits. I think it suits that sort of world.

I think having a taste to actually being able to create artwork like painting on canvas, it takes a different level of emotion and, like, pain and all the rest of it, you know?

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:20:21

Yeah, I mean, I'm with you on that.

I mean, I prefer, weirdly to, when I do my paintings, I actually prefer to use my hands and fingers rather than a paintbrush because I feel disconnected from paper or canvas or whatever it is that I'm working on.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:20:35

But it's an interesting.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:20:37

It's an interesting time that we're in. Like, it's racing so far.

So if we were to look sort of three to five years out, what do you think AI is going to look like in sort of three to five years time? Because in some ways, that seems like a long way off, and in other times, it's like, God, that's going to go fast. Where do you think AI is?

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:20:57

Honestly? It's just around the corner. Yeah. Yeah. I think AI will be able to create anything for us. Anything. I don't think. I don't think. I think it'll be.

There may not be enough fresh ideas out there anymore. You know, it's like when you go to a cinema and watch a movie, it's like, why did they recreate this? Oh, yeah.

Because they didn't have a fucking a better idea on how to. To make the next one out of. Out of. Out of fresh ideas, you know, or like the comics and all that.

We're all taken from books and it's like, all the rest of it, you know? But I'm not saying that they're shit, by the way. I'm saying that there are some, like, pretty fucking crazy moves out there.

I just think, like, coming up with the fresh ideas and things like that, and. And you'll be able to write in a prompt and come up with a three hour movie about. About anything, you know?

Because I think AI will be able to piece together, if you write the prompt in on the characters and all of that kind of stuff, creating a movie will be child's play, you know? And it's the same, it's the same with music. You know? It's the same with music. It's the same with art.

It's the same, like, with our creative world that we, we all fucking adore so much. I think AI is becoming so, so a part of that. Such a important. To a degree. Okay, an important part.

But I think it will be easier for us to do fucking everything. I think that's the point, isn't it? You create. Any technology that's created is to make our lives easier.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:22:34

But creativity, and I know you and I have talked about the fact that you are an artist through and through, and without that, you need that output. Right? And I wonder if you do.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:22:46

I do, yeah.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:22:47

And I want.

I wonder if you're making it too easy, but where does that output go, you know, if it's just about, like, I don't think nobody creates art because they want to do it. Make it easy for themselves. Like, they create art because they just want to explore themselves.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:23:03

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:23:08

I think.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:23:09

I just think that it's the could.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:23:11

Rather than should or would question, isn't it?

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:23:15

I guess, yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you. And if you would, then why. Yeah, yeah, yeah, true. Um, it is. It's a, it's a massive, massive tunnel to go down for three to five years.

I think.

I think even, even in the next year, next two years, I think there'll be a, there'll be a time or a moment when all of a sudden, creativity, like the. I think that the rawness of creativity will. It could disappear. Are you worried in the far future? I don't know. Yeah, of course I'm worried.

Yeah, definitely. You know, I think.

I think I've always thought that it's gonna get to a point where, you know, you could tell a fucking robot to paint on a canvas and then, wait, what a sec, is that. Is that the same? It's the same shit, isn't it? You know, you're no longer there.

You're like, you know, you've got a fucking robot called Jeremy or some shit. And you're like, jeremy, these are the prompts. Can you paint on the canvas? And I'm gonna go out and see my mates, you know, for a bit.

You know, it could be like that, you know, but like I said, being the creator. Yeah, I know. Yeah, same. But being designing and creating for so long, it's in my fucking blood, you know, so.

And then wanting to go and join these, you know, other agencies and other, another, you know, startups and companies that I can get a, you know, get a contract up and be a part of in the future as a creative partner, then the only reason why I'm doing that is because I'm kind of worried that maybe one day what I actually have tried so hard to learn and be good at is going to be obsolete as fuck. And that's kind of worrying.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:25:09

On one hand, I can see that it could become obsolete.

On the other hand, this is as much hope as it is anything else, I think, is that I think there will always be a place for the creative, out of the box thinking mind. Because when you think about AI, it's not pushing boundaries because it only knows what we've taught it.

Art and creativity comes from the oddest, sometimes most deepest, darkest depths of our minds. And I'm not saying that that stuff's not out on the Internet as well, because it kind of is.

We see it in all sorts of horrible ways, but in good ways as well.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:25:53

Yeah.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:25:54

I think I'm hoping that there will always be the balance. And I, for one, do not want to see the world have people like you feeling like you're not required anymore.

Because I think more than any time in the world, actually, I think you're.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:26:13

Required more, I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I'd still get people, you know, asking me, Oscar, can you come and have a look into this project to see what we want to get your opinion?

And I fucking love that so much. I'm so, I'm really lucky to have that community around me. But then sometimes I'm completely blown away.

And, you know, sometimes, well, more often than not, I'll give my feedback and then it's, you know, taking a couple of steps backwards. But those, those things are necessary. I don't know if I can.

If I'm writing in chat CPT about an idea, and then I'm what, what is the second opinion is the second opinion? It's the Internet, isn't it? That is the second opinion. When you're writing into chat about question.

But then if you were to show, if I was to show you, like, one of my, the business plan for my nfts, maybe you'd be like, yeah, this is sick. Or maybe you'd be like, you know, Oscar, maybe you should. The angle is interesting, but maybe have you tried to approach it in a different way?

Like, that's the difference you're giving me. You're giving me human value and real, and a real level of feedback. And then I think, to me, to a degree, it's more valuable, very specific.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:27:31

Feedback, because it's my personal opinion.

I almost wonder, and I'm playing Devil's devil's advocate here, because I do like AI and what it's doing and the things that I'm using it for as well. But I do wonder if what chat GPT is giving you is the average, median response of all the information put together.

And it's the average, and who the fuck wants average.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:28:00

You know? Not this guy. Fuck that.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:28:02

No.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:28:03

Yeah. No.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:28:04

What I do like about it is it's been able to do some wonderful things for me, as some of the listeners may know or some that don't. You know, I've come back from a long term illness which was neurological. And sometimes my brain just isn't.

Even though I'm a strategist and a brand person and a marketing person that's been very, very senior in the marketing and advertising world, the neurological impact has been that sometimes my brain just not working. And so I'll use my methodologies, but flow them in through chat GPT, which, by the way, the first time I used was with you.

You showed me how to use it.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:28:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:28:44

It does help me with some of those things, and it does help with a lot of research. Again, I know how to prompt it and all the rest of it. And I wonder which does bring me onto the long term question of sort of ten years and beyond.

I wonder if some of the positive impact of AI would be things like someone like me, who sometimes brain works, sometimes doesn't struggle with some things like yourself with dyslexia or adhd, or even people that have got physical disabilities who maybe once could paintbrush or maybe can't anymore or what have you, whether there's a positive spin on it for those sort of situations. What do you think about that and the ten year beyond world?

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:29:32

Super useful. I think that's, you know, I've been a part of. At the beginning of this year, I was part of creators with disabilities. And it was a.

It was essentially like a course where people with, you know, across the board neurodiversity came in and was talking to industry professionals about, you know, how to utilize their skills and how to learn to be, you know, in these sort of advertising environments. I think AI, you know, is a great tool there for sure. You know, it's just trying to, you got to be comfortable with yourself as well.

And if it's through, you know, building a bit of confidence or, you know, answering things in a different way or whatever, like our community, my community is fucking massive. It's probably more of the creative industry than we would even know, even be able to understand. But that's what I puts us there.

So with using AI, you know, to go hand in hand with people like us, it's. It's very helpful, for sure. Yeah, big time.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:30:50

I think the world. I think you hit on a point much earlier in our conversation about jump on the bandwagon. One of the things I would.

It would be interesting to get your point of view on would be where you think with the impact of AI and obviously digital as well, to a certain extent, AI today with the impact of AI, where do you think the next generations of artists and creatives are going to come from? Are they going to be more technical? Are they still going to be creative and artists, like, where do you think they're going to be stemming from, you.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:31:29

Know, with, you know, Google Glass or apple goggles or whatever they're called? That sounds such like an old fart. Sorry. I think people are going to be creating, like, you know. You know, like, you know. Yeah, I'm sorry.

With, with the creative digital space, right? So take Minecraft, for example. You know, I just saw an article recently of, like, a group of builders in Minecraft that created New York.

All of it, the whole thing in, in that space, you know? I think, I know, I know. It's fucking incredible. Google it. It's crazy. The lighting and. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll put it down here.

Yeah, yeah, but, yeah, like, so, so I think it's gonna be like, the creatives that are gonna be out there next are gonna be these, you know, these phenomenal designers at the end of the day, that can create digital art pieces which are the size of God, I don't know, Mount Everest or something, you know, create that gallery space to be able to walk through and have a look, but it will just be, like, through. Through the goggles rather than going out to see it, to see its space.

But I remember back in the day, I was trying to create just my own idea to create not an app like it would be through Oculus, but to be able to piece together a house or to build a house or take what sims were doing and then be able to put it into that 3d space or to engineer a new design of the car or whatever it may be, but you're doing it with the gloves and you're being able to build these things.

Then if it was a successful thing, then you can take those designs and send it to an architect firm and get it done or send it to, like, where they build cars. But, yeah, that was an idea. And I think. Yeah. Gimli Line. Yeah.

So I think the next steps are going to be really that because I think you can kind of start doing that now through some programs.

Like if I'm using blender to create some of my 3d stuff and to be able to put the glasses on and to be able to shape it and all those things right in real time in front of me, in, you know, the real size, everything else, those. I think those are the new artists there. It's like the fucking matrix. I don't know, but yeah. Do you know what I mean? I do.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:34:10

It's like the Matrix, isn't it? I don't think the matrix is as far away from reality as we originally thought when we started watching it in the nineties.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:34:21

Yeah. There is something called the Matrix paradox and there is people out there that believe that we are. That is real as today.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:34:33

Yeah, I hope not. I know.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:34:42

Yeah, they threw some bad code. Yeah, they threw some too much code or someone fell asleep on the keys and created something bad for all of us. But anyway, so that's.

I hope that's helpful, though.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:34:57

Yeah, no, that's really. It's been a really great conversation. I mean, if there was one thing that you haven't tried yet but you thought, you know what?

I'd really like to chuck AI at that. I see what I actually came out with. What do you think?

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:35:11

I'm probably thinking. No, no, no, it's fine. No, no, no, that's fine. I love to produce and direct. Right.

And I love to come up with, you know, commercials and, you know, the ads on tv and movies and documentaries and, you know, little film birds here and there. I fucking love that so much. Actually, I want to see if I can get back into that more.

I'm actually shooting a documentary, essentially a self documentary on how I've got here.

So maybe I would take the essence of that and see what AI could do with all the footage and everything else to see, but not to put it out there, but just to see what it could create back. Could be really interesting.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:36:00

It would be interesting.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:36:01

I mean, I think. I think I'd use it. I'd use it in regards to film. Sorry. I'd use it in regards to film work.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:36:07

Yeah, you showed me. Sorry, talking over here, you showed me some of the footage I thought was yesterday or the day before coming up.

But, yeah, that would be really interesting to throw that in and see whether it came back with what you had in your mind.

Because that's the thing about creativity and the execution of that into whatever it is that we're making has to go from the idea you've got in your head to the thing that you want to create and do those two match up.

It's why when I put in to chat GBT the other day to come up with a particular illustration that I was looking for, it was so far, and even when I kept prompting it, it still was, like, so far from anything. It would have been easier just to sit down and create it.

But when you've already got assets created in the way of filming and photography, what would that look like? It does come down to your ability to be able to prompt it again. So it's that ability to write a brief, isn't it?

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:37:09

Effectively, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's this new trend going around on. I think it's probably on capcut as a filter, but you can.

If you could take a picture of your younger self and your older self together and you can hug your. Your younger child version of you. Right.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:37:31

What's the point of fate?

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:37:32

And I don't think. I don't think that's.

he, you know, your, say, your: 1112

And now we've all gone through so much bullshit and heartache and death and all the rest of it to get where we are and we forget about our younger versions of ourselves, the young, fun looking, just to have a laugh. Give me a bag of sweets. Why don't you smile anymore? You know, there's these conversations that your inner child can have with yourself now.

Why don't you go, why don't we go in and play in the sun anymore? Why don't we do those things, you know, grown up? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, and, like, I think by AI pushing on ourselves into those, you know, it's a fun filter to do, but actually it's going to make us think a little bit more about, like, our inner child reminds us of things that we take for granted now or we don't even think about because we're so caught up in, you know, today's world that our past selves, you know, are probably looking at us being like, where did it all go right? Or where did it all go wrong? But just still, remember, I'm here, I'm still around.

So there's, there's, there's a lot of that going around at the moment. Um, and by, by this filter being out there, it's, it's, you know, it's heart provoking. Promoting. Provoking. Provoking.

It's provoking those levels of emotions. Yeah.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:39:28

Tapping into our childhood self brings back some wonderful things. It brings back that innate curiosity that children have.

It brings back that willingness to play and try things, which I think, to your point, does get bashed out of us a bit as we grow older and life happens and, you know, we grow.

And the one thing I know I've tried to hold on to, and I think even though there's literally 32 years difference between you and I, the thing that we've always connected on is our minds are still. Well, mine is. Yours is still young. Mine is still young though, because I still think I'm your age, weirdly. Or probably younger.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:40:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Agent fucking matter at all.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:40:14

The playfulness and that curiosity. Like, I'm 51 years old and I'm sitting here talking about AI, unafraid of it. And I think that's really exciting and, yeah, it is.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:40:24

Yeah, it's palm for sure.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:40:26

So for me, the AI do it, don't do it. I think is, I think more you have to do it. Like you said earlier on in our conversation, I think to not do it is not good.

But it leads us on to the final question of the day, which we're now trying to ask our guests, which is a really simple one.

If you were to think about the people that you know or the people around you that could potentially be a guest and be a good guest on creatives with AI, do you have any recommendations and why?

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:41:12

So can you repeat the question again? I'm just wrap my head around it. It's not that simple.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:41:17

If you were to recommend somebody in your, it could either be somebody you know, in your community or somebody you don't know as a guest for creatives with AI, it's me.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:41:26

Okay.

Okay, so, okay, so one of my, he's my business mentor now, and he helped me get my first role when I came out of university and I was spray painting and all the rest of it. He. He saw me editing my portfolio when I was actually at the Hoxton. Right. His name is Josh Jost. Super fucking interesting guy.

But, you know, he gave me my first opportunity as a creative director for Xia Uni for a company. I wasn't ready for it.

I took a step back after about two years and, you know, started as a midweight, but anyway, that's not, you know, there, but Josh. Okay. Really fucking interesting guy. And I think to bring him in and give his perspective, because I want to say he's our age. You know what I mean?

Because he's so. He. We all. I think you and I, especially Lina, we think the same way. You know, he's.

He's in real life, he's closer to your age or my dad's age, you know. Yeah, I think he's maybe a little bit older, but he is utilizing TikTok. He's. You know, he's very much on the pulse these days as well.

As well as, like, he's a role model for me because he's got his fingers in different pies, and to be able to have those levels of conversations is really interesting. But I think. I think him. And I will. I'll link you guys up for sure.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:42:56

Or pop him in the thingy somewhere.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:42:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Down here somewhere. But, yeah, I think to have him involved and to get his perspective would be real interesting. Dive into that world, for sure.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:43:14

Well, that's great. Well, look, thank you very much for your time today. As always, a pleasure to have an interesting conversation.

I want to say thank you to the listeners for listening today.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:43:27

Thank you.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:43:28

It's been wonderful. And to say thank you to everybody, like I said, for listening, and to continue being curious, because I think it's important.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:43:39

Yeah, stay on the pulse, everybody. Okay? It's going to be worth it, I promise.

Lena Robinson - Host: 00:43:43

See you later.

Oscar Mitchell Higgs - Guest: 00:43:46

See ya. Bye.

Voiceover: 00:43:47

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