Handover to our new host Lena Robinson

David Brown (: 01:14

Lena, welcome back!

Lena Robinson (: 01:21

Hi. Good to be back.

David Brown (: 01:27

so this is a little bit of a different episode today. For everybody out there, obviously last week or week before last, I put out an episode talking about how, you know, that the podcast was going to change and that we were getting in line with some of the other shows on with AIFM. And one of the things that we're going to do is I'm going to hand over hosting responsibilities to Lena moving forward for the creative show. So Lena, thank you very much for stepping up to do that.

Lena Robinson (: 02:00

You are more than welcome. I'm very excited.

David Brown (: 02:04

I'm excited to have you. I think it's going to be great. And for maybe for people who didn't listen to the last episode, the reason that I really am excited for Lena to do it is for a couple of reasons. Number one, she’s got huge personality and I think it will be really interesting to have as someone to host the conversation is probably more interesting than me. I think that you also have a- your background of working with creatives and also working with creative agencies over the last, I don't know how many couple decades, I guess, gives you a much more creative, you're an actual creative, whereas I'm kind of a fake creative.

And I think that's gonna help make the discussions a little bit better as we move forward, because I think originally the show, I very much wanted to be in the beginning, the canary in the coal mine, that was raising the flag to say, hey, I think this is going to be an issue and we should all think about this and you know, AI might be a problem. I think over the last year, what's happened is it's calmed down a little bit. And I think what's really interesting is that a lot of creative people are figuring out how to use AI in a productive and a positive way. And yeah, there's still some issues that we need to talk about, but I'm not so much worried about the...

And maybe that's wrong, but I'm not so much worried about being the canary in the coal mine. I now think the conversation needs to move on to how are people actually- really, how are people using it and how are they being creative with it and that sort of thing. And I know that you in your personal network have loads of interesting people to talk to and to talk about that and artists who are using AI and that sort of thing. So I'm to be quiet for a minute and let you talk, but if maybe you could just give a little bit of your background for the people who didn't listen to your episode. People can always go back and listen to that if they want as well. Of course, please do. And all the other ones. But yeah, just introduce yourself. Tell everybody where you came from. A little bit about maybe what you're thinking about with the show and we'll just see where it goes.

Lena Robinson (: 04:13

Thank you very much. Great introduction. I was really excited when I listened to your podcast last week that was generally talking about what you're going to be doing with the group of podcasts that you've got. And I immediately thought, I really want to talk to him about whether I could be one of the hosts. Anyway, as it turns out, you'd already thought about it and you said, would you like to do Creatives with AI? And having already been a host, I was sort of familiar with it.

What I'm really excited about is that you and I are old enough to have gone through several things in the world, i .e. the introduction of the internet way back in the day and everybody freaked out about that was like, our jobs are gonna, you know, there's so many things that in social media like anything new that comes in you look through history and I'm a big history buff you look at through history and the anthropology, the changing of civilization and there's always big massive things you know the Industrial Revolution etc etc where everybody freak well a lot of people freak out but those that are smart enough

adjust to what needs to be, they learn about it, they adjust to it and they utilise it the way that it was, I guess, probably originally meant to do, which is to enhance and what have you. There are still plenty of artists and creatives out there that are worried about it, but I also think there's a need for more education around it so that that fear drops.

It's just, you know, I've got a background with my, my dad did his degree in art history and anthropology, hence why I'm interested in those topics. Always was around artists and creatives, you know, quite bohemian. And when I talk about artists, I'm talking about musicians and painters and sculptors and, you know, filmmakers and comedians and, you know, creativity comes in lots of different ways and means. And, you know, I'm going to talk about that a little bit more in a

Lena Robinson (: 06:26

about where I want to take the podcast generally. But from there I ended up doing lots of different jobs but ended up in the creative industry. took myself, I did art design, technical drawing and photography at school. So I am an artist myself but I'm not necessarily saying I'm the best artist but I love creating and I love crafting and that kind of thing. So from that perspective I have an empathy for where

are coming from but I ended up in the commercial world of creativity which is advertising and marketing agencies across all the different spectrums like brand creativity making advertising but also the marketing world of like you know everything from like a sticker to a shelf wobbler to whatever so I understand from that perspective as well that there is many types of creatives in that world so

I've got a broad view of what I think creativity is, which includes thinking by the way. Creative thinking for me is as creative as somebody that can draw or can, you know, build a sculpture out of mud bricks or whatever. Creativity is broad - and I don't think it's good to just narrow it down to a couple of areas. But in saying that, yeah.

David Brown (: 07:39

Yep. Yep.

David Brown (: 07:50

No, you're absolutely right on that. Sorry to just- to jump in, but you're absolutely right on that. I think a lot of people, you know, throughout the podcast up until now, I've been- I've spoken to a lot of people in industries that maybe people wouldn't traditionally think of as creative. I think a lot of times when you say creative, people just think of artists, painters, illustrators, maybe musicians.

that sort of thing they don't think about software engineers or entrepreneurs or anything, you you can have, you can have creative people. I mean, the legal field is quite creative in some ways. Yes, it's very rigid and very limited in a lot of ways, but it's also, you know, there are lawyers out there who are always pushing the boundaries. They're coming up. They're very creative in their interpretation of the law and how it works. You know, medicine has to be very creative as well, because you, I mean, a surgeon has to be massively creative. They have to be able to think on the fly. That's creativity really, because you get into a body and sometimes the organs aren’t where they're supposed to be, which is to me is totally bizarre.

Lena Robinson (: 08:52

No, or the size they're supposed to be.

David Brown (: 08:59

Like, yeah, I mean I've talked to surgeons and they're like literally you you know you can open up someone and stuff is supposed to be generally in the same place but sometimes it's flipped around or it's on the back of their body and he's like you know you never really know until you get in there what it's going to be like. So yeah I totally agree with you. I think you know creativity is something that you do. It's something that you bring to whatever it is that you do. It's not necessarily a job.

Lena Robinson (: 09:22

Yeah, agreed. I think that actually, although we've got a very specific theme about creatives with AI, actually in my mind, although we'll still stick to that theme, there is a broad spectrum of people that my brain already, like off the back of you and I catching up a person yesterday and talking about what could possibly be included. Like the mere fact that you've just talked about law, like if you just think, that, law and AI,

is definitely going to be something that's going to be impacted right so there could be lawyers for musicians there could be lawyers for commercial artists and book illustrators like there's a lot of feel and don't get me wrong I'm gonna try really hard not to have any boring people on but

It's going to impact lots of different areas in the world of business. And let's be honest, truly honest, although you and I agreed yesterday that neither of us are driven by money.

David Brown (: 10:12

You

Lena Robinson (: 10:24

We all have to earn a living. And one of the things that I love having with my art gallery, the FTSEQ gallery, it's drivers to support artists that intend to leave behind a legacy, and that's pretty much most artists. And in order to support that legacy, they need to earn money, right? So to pretend otherwise is silly, which is why the lawyers get involved in all the rest of it, and Tom, my artist, has got a very interesting view on that,

David Brown (: 10:47

Yeah, yeah, of course.

Lena Robinson (: 10:55

which will be exciting because think he's going to be my first interview. Yeah, it's an interesting... I think we've got lots to discover and lots to talk about and I think it's going to be an endless supply of people, I think, in lots of different areas. So yeah, that's kind of where I want to head.

David Brown (: 11:08

Yeah. Yeah, 100%.

Lena Robinson (: 11:15

down musicians and film, video artists which inside itself has many different people. know, there's design, there's architects, yeah, it's endless.

David Brown (: 11:16

Cool.

David Brown (: 11:29

Going back to something you said a minute ago about artists, know, think of again a lot of people look at classic art and things like that and like Da Vinci and all that and you you look at the Sistine Chapel and things like that and that was commissioned work. An artist didn't do that for fun. They were paid by the Pope to do that. So, you know,

They were making a living by creating art. I think, you know, a lot of the artists, the classic artists and, you know, people look at it and they think they forget that this is what these people did for a living and they made money doing it. And it's no different. It was no different back then than it is. didn't. mean, yes, okay. You know, they had a skill and they, they use their skill, but it, was a job. And so a lot of that art was done because someone paid them to do it. And we shouldn't lose sight of that. You're absolutely right. And I think.

That's one of the subtexts of the podcast so far has kind of been for those people who are creatives with a capital C and do that as a business and a career. know, AI is having an impact, but it's not having the impact that maybe we initially thought. We thought it was just going to replace everybody, but we have some people in common that we know and I think they're going to be on your show probably

in the first couple of guests at least who it's, it's increased their capacity to be able to create and to produce content for people in a professional setting. So they have clients who come to them and say, Hey, I need to commission you to do, you know, 200 images for a hotel chain or 200 images for whatever. And it's like, they need to go and produce that and they can produce drafts very quickly. And I don't want to steal the story.

Well, I'll save that for later. it's given them the ability to deliver more work in a shorter amount of time, but they're still doing the work and they're still using it to get to the point that they want to get to. And I think that's what's really interesting. that's where I think, again, you and I talked about this yesterday, but it's where I think you want to now pick up that conversation and let's take it to the next stage. that's really interesting.

Lena Robinson (: 13:37

Yeah. Yeah. I think what's really interesting about that, and I know who you're talking about with regards to the hotel staff, that's Tom. I think what's interesting about...

And it is an education thing once again about AI is that from the moment I came across and start talking to Tom, my fine artist about it, Tom Morley, he was surprised that as a gallery I was interested in talking to him, because I approached him, we've been friends for a few years on different things, but didn't realise he had the art background. And when I found out and I approached him, he was quite surprised because he said most galleries are not looking at it

the same way that I was, which is AI is a tool. I've seen him have conversations with other artists and his Facebook pages and things like that where the people have gone, that's really amazing, but I worry about my art. And he

And I know he does, he still creates art in multiple different ways. You know, some artists will do collage and some artists will do sculpture and some will do, you know, ceramics and like there's lots of different ways. He still sketches, he still paints and draws and also uses the AI, but he's using AI for music and yep, ceramics, yeah.

David Brown (: 15:06

He does ceramics as well, doesn't he?

Lena Robinson (: 15:10

interesting about that is that it starts with the concept like you get any tool you know you give a paintbrush to a chipmunk and they're gonna do a crap job right

You give a paintbrush to an artist who understands where they're coming from, what their concept is, and they- where they're going. I know some artists don't always start with a concept, they just kind of start, but whatever that is, that thing that innately makes them a creative and an artist...

is not going to change whether they're using AI or a paintbrush or a knife for sculpting or whatever or a welding arc whatever. Whatever those tools are, good is going to be good, bad is going to be bad. The tool doesn't matter. And that's kind of the way I look at AI and why I'm so excited to use this podcast to educate people, to take some of the fear away, to encourage those artists that are maybe not

David Brown (: 16:22

Nice. And I also want to go back to a couple of things. One, you mentioned your podcast. So this isn't your first rodeo, by the way. So you have had your own podcast. So give a little plug to everybody to go listen. I know there's a few episodes there and I've listened to a few of them while I was on the treadmill and really enjoyed- really enjoyed the stuff that you've done in the past and I think you've still got some more episodes that are recorded that we're going to get out for that as well. let's yeah so let you know but talk a little bit about that and then I want to follow up on something else as well.

Lena Robinson (: 16:49

which you're helping me with. Yep.

Lena Robinson (: 16:56

Sure.

Lena Robinson (: 16:59

So the business, I've got a couple of businesses going on, FTSQ Gallery, which we've just talked about, and they've got FTSQ, more the business consultancy, and the consultancy always, hence why I ended up working in the art world as well, was always focused on working with non -conformists. They are my favourite type of people, the people that are square pegs and round holes, the kind of ones that...

They're the ones that change the world, the people that push the boundaries, that do things differently. I mean, a perfect example of a nonconformist is Taika Waititi or Jeff Goldblum or Grace Jones or, you know, those people that kind of just push, do things differently, think differently, therefore their outcome is different. And so the podcast that I had for FTSQ General was about celebrating the nonconformists.

So, you know, I've got a person on there that I interviewed who is a transgender clothing designer for fetish clothing. You cannot get more non -conformist than that. But just the journey, we talk about the journey, right?

David Brown (: 18:16

It is and it sounds totally random when you listen to it. You're just like Okay, actually I have to listen to that because I don't understand how any of that fits together

Lena Robinson (: 18:26

But when you listen to it and you find out that he used to be in the military, he, you know,

He was doing what he's doing now with his partner Fifi. They were, he was, loved cars. So he could pull any car apart, put it back together, re -engineer it, like really amazing. Has done some pretty amazing stuff in the world of, like I said, the military life. And we're not just talking, he was infantry. He was doing quite specialist work from what I understand.

Can't talk about it, obviously. But what's interesting about that is I love the backstories. It's the same with my artists. I like telling those backstories and finding out what drives them and what motivates them and where it comes from. So that's kind of what that's about. It kind of got dropped for a wee while, for quite a few years while I was dealing with some physical illness that I was dealing with. Now that that is being dealt with and I'm moving back into working and what have you and getting involved with you,

I will be continuing to record for that as well and they kind of sit nicely beside each other I think for me because both are about doing things differently so that's what that's about

David Brown (: 19:37

Yeah, 100%. And what does FTSQ stand for?

Lena Robinson (: 19:43

FTSQ, which will not surprise you when you understand that I was wanting to attract and talk to and work with non -conformists, FTSQ stands for Fuck the Status Quo. Because quite frankly, sometimes the status quo is a bit shit. So that's what that's about. That's about challenging things. And being okay to challenge, but if it's okay, leave it as it is, but move it and change it and take action if it's not. So that's what that's about.

David Brown (: 20:09

100 % totally agree. The other thing I wanted to pick up on was - You talked a little bit about your background, maybe, because obviously you have an accent, and for people who haven't listened to the other show, you're from New Zealand, but maybe talk a little bit about your background from New Zealand and what that was like. And I know you mentioned that you had artists and stuff around, but you do have a very, I think you've got a very interesting perspective on things because of the background that you have. And if you don't mind sharing, I think it'd be interesting for people just to get a little bit more of a picture of who you are.

Lena Robinson (: 20:21

True. I am.

Lena Robinson (: 20:37

Sure.

Lena Robinson (: 20:42

Sure. So as you can tell, the Kiwi accent comes out even after 21 years living in London, it's still very strong. And I am very much a Kiwi at my heart. It is my, I love England and I probably won't necessarily go back to live in New Zealand ever, or if I do it'll be a long way away.

But. New Zealand, here's why it's different, I think, and why my background is the way it is and why I am who I am. I was brought up by a...

a mother who is half Maori, which is the indigenous people of New Zealand, and half Scottish. So that's her side of the family. So that brings with it a whole lot of interesting cultural things, tribal things, history, background that is quite unique. As you can tell, I do present as white, so that has its own interesting internal arguments, discussions, things that I have, what have you. My father...

David Brown (: 21:40

Yep.

Lena Robinson (: 21:46

is as you can tell having with him having done his Bachelor of Arts in Art History and Anthropology he's an amazing thing a really smart man

Both my parents are my heroes in the fact that they have run their own businesses, they've owned plant nurseries so I grew up propagating plants and weeding things and growing things so that's one part of who I am but also both my parents ran their very successful landscaping business which several times they lost several of their businesses for different reasons none of them the fault by the way so one of them was a recession recession in the 80s the other one - a big, big mess of client literally - booking them and then leaving the country and leaving them completely unpaid.

That was horrendous.

But I've learned a lot of things watching what they've done well and what they haven't done so well. But what's always inspired me with them is that they never grew, never gave up on anything. They are as positive as you can imagine about supporting me and what I'm doing and my brothers. Won't surprise you that all three of us all own our own businesses. My brother, two younger brothers and myself - very entrepreneurial.

The one thing that I think is also different about being brought up in, I was brought up in rural New Zealand as well, the thing when you get asked around the table, what's that one thing that people will be surprised about you, and that you're sitting in a boardroom and whatever, and I'm dressed up to the nines and look like I'm the new business person, usually, is that I can milk a cow by hand, and everybody goes, what?

David Brown (: 23:27

Love it.

Lena Robinson (: 23:32

But that mixture of that, the rural upbringing, the freedom of the 80s, you know, kept freedom in the 80s in rural New Zealand. You can run around at nine o 'clock at night in the paddocks and nobody cared, you know. But because my parents are also different in their belief systems, my mother is still an active Jehovah's Witness.

and very religious but also reasonable with it although she's very strong in her belief she's very kind and thoughtful and understanding of the fact that I have chosen to leave that religion but she still loves me and cares for me and is exactly the same mum as she always has been, my dad is agnostic

David Brown (: 24:13

Well, that's good.

Lena Robinson (: 24:17

yeah very good I'm very lucky.

My dad is agnostic, so I've had two different, very different views of the way of living, which is why I think I'm so open to multiple lifestyles. You're not freaked out by lifestyles. Despite the fact that my mum is quite religious, we would have a lot of people coming through the house that were very creative, very bohemian and hippie -ish -like, that, as I said, were painters and creators and, you know some pretty wild characters which I love the fact and that's probably I get that love of the non -conformist from my dad but I know my mum is quite non -conformist in her own right.

She's very creative. She was originally a florist by trade and still does it here and there for free for people. Very creative from that perspective. Smart as anything, kicks my butt when it comes to scrabble and things, any word thing, she kicks my backside. Smart woman. But in New Zealand also, we've been really lucky culturally that

David Brown (: 25:07

Okay, yep.

Lena Robinson (: 25:26

women like New Zealand women were the first in the world to get the vote by quite a bit I think at least a year for the world and compared to the UK it was like seven years difference we've had you know three female prime ministers at one point both the prime minister and the leader of the opposition were female and I've been brought up not and I think this is quite specific to my parents as well I've been both of my brothers and I have been brought up

thinking about us as humans rather than gender.

And it's not that our gender doesn't matter, of course it does, and it differentiates us. But at the same time, I walk through the world not worrying about whether I'm going to be accepted because I'm a woman or I'm not. I walk into a boardroom, and I've had interesting discussions with women about this, I walk into a boardroom not even thinking that I'm not going to get listened to. I automatically know I will be. And that's a weird thing for most women, and it's unusual. But I think it's because my brothers and I were brought up literally being treated the same.

They've been taught to cook and clean and all those kinds of things as have I but I've also been taught how to build and tile a floor and you know I remember as a pre-teen I and it's still there I've gone back on Google Earth and I've gone back to our family home in the South Island of New Zealand which is away from where my parents live now and I can still see the brick path that I laid as a pre -teen so because of that

David Brown (: 26:43

Yep.

Lena Robinson (: 26:59

I guess I look at the world a little bit slightly differently. So that kind of in a nutshell is me. No bullshit, straight talking, get to the point. But I give a shit about things. I care about things very deeply. To my own detriment sometimes, often putting others before myself.

working with my therapist on that to make sure I'm coming first too. So yeah, it's important that that's where I come from, which is why doing well for my artists and helping them and working with creatives and encouraging whatever format their creativity and art comes in is so vitally important to me. Yeah.

David Brown (: 27:24

Yeah, fair enough.

David Brown (: 27:43

And that was the reason. So there was a reason that I wanted to dig into that story a little bit. And I think it- I think we share something in common in that because we were both brought up in rural areas. I was brought up on a, you know, we had 300 acres of farmland outside of Memphis. And, know, I spent a lot of time with my grandparents when I was younger. And, you know, in that- in that rural.. farmer-type community a couple of things stand out number one, there's no bullshit like Everybody's pretty straight talking. There's no politics. There's no anything everybody just everybody talks plainly.

It's not that people aren't intelligent It's just that they speak plainly because I think in a lot of those environments and doing a lot of that type of work You have to be very direct and very clear or else people are gonna get injured, especially around farm equipment or animals or anything like that you have to-

Lena Robinson (: 28:33

Yeah. Yep. Animals. Yeah.

David Brown (: 28:37

You're right. You know, when you start dealing with cattle and horses and all that sort of stuff, you have to learn how to do that. you have it needs to be simple instructions that you talk to people. I think we learned to be very plain and straightforward speaking from those types of environments. And I also think that- and it's brilliant that you- that you went there in your story. I also think that in rural communities in a funny kind of way.

On one hand, you have very traditional gender roles in that, you know, lot of times the women take care of the house and the men go out and do the farming and they do all the work. But that's only part of the story, because on a farm, everybody does everything.

Like you just- everybody has to do stuff - if you're if you're farming and you're and you're growing soybeans or you're growing wheat or you're growing something like that when it's harvest time everybody's working on the harvest. That's it. Like everybody does it - if you grow bell- when I grew up in middle Tennessee they used to grow lots of green bell peppers and when it was harvest season like all the kids didn't go to school. The wives were out on the field the kids were out in the field no matter what age they were like everybody was picking bushels and bushels and bushels and bushels and oh my god it just like that's all everybody did and it was-

there was a- whilst there were still those traditional gender roles, but they were, they were, there was also this total and complete equality across everything. You know, men knew how to do everything, women knew how to do everything, and you just had to do it. And I think that's a, that's something I don't see in cities so much is because you don't need it. And then I think what you get in urban areas is you get more of a distinction because

David Brown (: 30:18

you don't have to be that way so you end up with these more defined roles. Anyway, it's brilliant that you went there because it was kind of what I was getting at and it does help explain sort of, I think anyway, kind of why you are the way you are and kind of the background that brings you there. That was all.

Lena Robinson (: 30:38

I agree, it's really interesting hearing you talking about that because I hadn't really thought about it like that before but you're absolutely right. I think- what is also- so yes, I think the fact that everybody just rolls their sleeves up and gets something, you when it's harvest time, you have a window of time in which to do everything and everybody just piles on kids, know, wives, girlfriends, husbands, boyfriends, whatever that thing, you know, everybody's just, you know, rolling up their sleeves. What also hit me though, when you were talking about that, and I hadn't really thought about this before, but farmers are essentially entrepreneurs you know they're small business owners they have to be because they are growing things they have although they you know you chuck them into a boardroom they'd be like possibly like deer in a headlights but - they are hustling they are, growing things building relationships which is massively for me, I think an art that is getting lost - that ability to build a proper, strong, solid, long -term relationship. mean, my parents are still friends with all the people they did work with, not all the clients, but some of the clients are still friends with years after they've sold their business and retired, but also all the suppliers, like the tile suppliers and the engineers and bricklayers and you know, all sorts of people.

David Brown (: 31:45

Yeah.

Lena Robinson (: 32:04

And it's something that I've learned from them watching them how they do business or did business that for me is that relationship things really important, but the other thing that that hit me was yeah, like I said that the entrepreneurial spirit - that mind and thinking and have like, they have to deal with so many things like weather seasons, stuff goes wrong all the time. You know, you get pests coming in and wipe out an entire crop.

I've seen over the years a few, I mean of any industry that's had to pivot, it's been that. Massively hit by the industrial revolution, it's definitely been hit by global changes with pests literally being able to get into other countries on the back of people, on the back of luggage, all that kind of thing. They've also had to deal with global warming.

And I've watched some interesting things on Discovery Plus and things like that. These farmers in America who've turned to, rather than farming their properties, they're now digging up dinosaur bones and selling them. Or you'll get people that are moving into hydroponics or you'll get, like one thing I really love watching, which is hilarious, but talk about entrepreneurial, is the moonshiners, right? The moonshiners in America who make moonshine,

David Brown (: 33:18

Yeah, yeah

Lena Robinson (: 33:32

Again, entrepreneurial is how they've had to be because they had to run away from the law and all the rest it. What's interesting is the show is watching them starting to turn into- making them into profitable commercial businesses. These guys are, okay, they might not be book smart, but hell, these guys are intelligent. They are street smart like nothing on earth. And I think those are the kind of people that I am really interested in.

David Brown (: 33:42

Yeah, businesses, yeah.

David Brown (: 33:51

Yeah.

David Brown (: 33:57

And in case law enforcement's listening, I've never met one and I have no idea where any stills might have been or might be in the future.

Lena Robinson (: 34:02

I watched it on the telly, so I'm okay. You watched it on the telly. But you know what I'm talking about, these people are interesting.

David Brown (: 34:08

I grew up there.

Lena Robinson

I wish I'd met one in real life, would have loved it. Hopefully one day. But yeah, I just think, yeah.

David Brown (: 34:17

Can I jump in? was just, sorry, I know I'm talking a lot today, but one of the things that you said actually reminded me of a story, and if you'll give me five minutes, I'll tell you, but you talked about the farmers going in the boardroom, and one of the best presentation sort of event things I've ever seen was, this was back in the early,

s, early: 2000

And so, you know, our MD got up and he had a few slides and he talked about how, you know, we're handling the credit card processing for Sony. So if anybody goes on the website and they want to buy kit and it goes through our thing and we do address verification and fraud check and blah, blah. And everybody that got up had a, you know, very slick, massively designed, produced, you know, slide deck and everything. The guy that did the shipping.. basically rocked up in what I would say is overalls. You'd probably say coveralls here maybe and didn't, you know - basically work wear, right? Like trucking work wear. He didn't have a suit on. He didn't have a tie on. He didn't have any of that. He rocked up and he basically got out on stage and he just looked at everybody and he said, I don't have a presentation. I'm just going to tell you what we're going to do.

And then he proceeded in graphic detail to tell you every single step of the process, how the shipping worked, where the trucks were, how much they could hold. Like, I mean, he knew everything off the top of his head. And afterward, even - I'm still talking about it today. This was 22, 23 years ago. And I'm, I still talk about that guy who got up and did that. And I know other people do. I met up with some people from that company the other day for drinks. And we mentioned, do you remember that guy who got up from Sony and blah, blah, blah.

He made such an impression, but he's that kind of unsuspecting type that would show up in the boardroom that people, if you just saw him on the street, a lot of people would judge him for the way he looked and the way he was dressed and they'd be like, he's like some fan driver. But he showed up and absolutely blew everyone out of the water with the depth of knowledge, the detail, understanding and everything. And he didn't need a slide deck to help him talk through it. And it made such a massive impression.

I sometimes get a chip on my shoulder for people who live in rural areas because, and this is, I'll probably get hate for this and actually I don't really care, but I think a lot of people who live in urban areas, they're like the educated people and they've all gone to university and they all have these white collar jobs and we all make lots of money and we sit behind a desk and we type on a computer a little bit all day and then we make 100 grand, I mean I wish I made 100 grand, but you know what I mean?

Lena Robinson (: 37:14

this because I guess it's.

David Brown (: 37:37

We, like, make a hundred thousand pounds a year and then we go home and we don't do anything. Whereas, you know, we've got these people out who live in rural areas who are working their asses off. They're farming, they're doing all this stuff. And there's this kind of elite who live in the city. So you think, well, these people didn't go to university, therefore they're stupid and they don't know anything. And if they were smart, they would have gone to university and they'd live in a city. And I, that really annoys me.

Lena Robinson

Yeah, Me too.

David Brown

And so, you know, obviously I've, gone off on one a little bit, but no, I totally know what you're, I know what you mean. And when you said that, it just made me think of that story. So, you know, we can't, we can't write off people who, who live in other areas or who do different types of work because we think that that work is somehow not, you know, you, don't have to be smart to do it. It's just a completely different type of knowledge. And as you know, Jeremy Clarkson on Clarkson's Farm is, has, is teaching people.

David Brown (: 38:34

You know, there's a lot more to it. And I think a lot of people who'd never had any sort of experience, and would never watch a farm show if it wasn't Clarkson, frankly. And he's probably done more for rural people in a couple of seasons of his show than anyone has ever done for rural people and actually going through and showing, you know, how much is actually involved and how much you have to know. And, you know, you it's a completely different knowledge

Anyway, we've drifted completely off of talking about AI and that's totally fine. I knew we were going to do that, so it's alright.

Lena Robinson (: 39:03

No, no, no, you haven't though because what I think it brings it back to is A) the fact that those are the outliers, are the ones that are pushing new boundaries, i .e. artists, creatives, what have you. In the past I know that there's been plenty of academics that poo poo you know, creatives. One of the things that I heard the other day, I don't have the background on this so don't shoot me if this is untrue, but somebody was telling me that different loads of schools across the country in the curriculum, they're reducing art and creative subjects - quite frankly are you fucking kidding me why are they doing that?

David Brown (: 39:51

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, they're losing the budget for it and they can't do it. Yeah. It's terrible. Yeah.

Lena Robinson (: 40:01

I Don't understand it. But what that brings us to is that, you know, there will be, those are the people that are more likely to be the head of the bell curve for want of a different use, for use around things like, like it's not, it's unsurprising to me that there are, that one of the biggest,

Correct me if I'm wrong on this but one of the biggest uses of AI appears to be enhancing people's creative output whether that be art, that be writing, whether that be coming up with new ideas if they're a bit stuck. Hopefully in the future it will help things like if a writer has writer's block and they just need a couple of ideas to then take on and what have you.

David Brown (: 40:55

Yep.

Lena Robinson (: 40:55

The combination of human and AI is always going to be, know, Minta Dial, who you and I met through, he talks a lot about this, the power is where the two things, art and, sorry, where AI and technology and the human all come together. And I agree, but I do think it's interesting that the ones that are the non -conformists, the ones that are the entrepreneurial types are getting it more, and understanding it and not afraid of it as much.

David Brown (: 41:28

Yep. Right. So who- so can you share with us some names of people who you'd like to have on the show? Do you have anyone in mind? I know you- you have a couple of people you've teed up for the beginning. So can you share those? Are you willing to share those? Or do you want it to be a big secret and people will have to check in and see who you've got?

Lena Robinson (: 41:42

Yep.

Lena Robinson (: 41:47

I mean the first one I can definitely talk about, that's Tom Morley. He has, not signed anything, but we have verbally agreed that he will come on. Tom Morley is one of my fine art artists in the gallery. He happens to be an AI artist. He's 70 years old, so it just spans immediately that, like, old people don't get technology - bullshit. He is creating - so he used to be the drummer of an 80s,

David Brown (: 42:14

Yep.

Lena Robinson (: 42:17

A very famous 80s band called Scritti Politti and he is using it to create the most amazing art.

He's prolific, which is cool. He's happy to go down different styles. He has crafted the art of the prompt down to a fine art. So he's getting what's coming out. And I'm really excited to be talking to him on this podcast. I think it's a perfect space for him. He's also creating music.

David Brown (: 42:41

Yep.

David Brown (: 42:46

Yep.

David Brown (: 42:49

He's figured out how to do amazing looking watercolour style imagery as well. And we've seen him, we've seen some of that of his and we'll put his name, actually we'll go ahead and put his name in the show notes and everything for today. And we'll drop a couple of links in so people can find him on LinkedIn or on his own page and stuff where he shares. And I think he has some social accounts as well. Exactly. And so people can go and check it out but I'm really looking forward to that conversation because I think he'll be, he's exactly-

Lena Robinson (: 43:08

and on my gallery, that would be good.

David Brown (: 43:19

-the type of person that I think, you know, we should be talking to. And so I think that'll be amazing. So yeah, brilliant.

Lena Robinson (: 43:27

The other, there's two more people I wanna talk about. Again, I haven't spoken to this person, but I know you've interviewed Nicole Yershon before. So Nicole, if you're listening to this, I'm coming for you babe. I'd like you to come back on and have a you and me chat, just you and me on the show. Because she is very much about driving innovation into business. Isn't afraid of new ways of doing things, new technology, new thinking, smart, smart

David Brown (: 43:38

Yep.

Lena Robinson (: 43:57

woman, really driving where business needs to go in the future. She's a very future- forward thinking person, definitely one I hope I'll be talking to her. I want to bring on Minter again, I haven't talked to you about this, but I'd like to bring Minter on because he was in the world of commercial, he was senior global marketing person in L 'Oreal, so he understands the commercial side of creativity, whether that be thinking strategy or output.

David Brown (: 44:06

Yep.

Lena Robinson (: 44:27

know, imagery. Definitely want to be talking to him because his view, and he's done several white papers on around technology, AI and so forth, and how it interacts with communication and people and empathy and all those kinds of things. So definitely want to be talking to him. And the other person that I definitely want to talk to, he again is unaware of this, but I will definitely be coming to talk to him, is a chap called Tim.

Carter, he used to head up and work for Google and headed up the partnerships, Andrew Partnerships program within Google, very smart man, but like me, worked in the corporate world for many a long year, which I didn't even mention that was what I was doing for agencies, was new business, but he was like me a maverick.

much heavier out on his own, although I know he's working with, and this is one of the things I want to talk to him about, is that he's working with a video and film technology company that are using AI to speed up the process of reshoots, -edits, what have you, they're using AI, I think I've got that right in explaining it, but I would really like to be talking to him about it. What's interesting is that even though he's done all that, he is actually originally trained as a lawyer,

So he's a really interesting guy that I'd like to get on as well. Yeah, plenty of people. I'm only just starting my list because we only met yesterday to discuss that this was happening. So yeah, lots more to come, yeah, pretty, it won't be, I won't be short of a person or two and I'm definitely going to make sure they're interesting.

David Brown (: 45:59

Yeah, yeah.

David Brown (: 46:13

Awesome, no can't wait. And when's your first, I think the first episode is the 9th? No, this one's out. This one goes out on the 9th and then Tom will be two weeks after that. So what's that, the 20 something, 24th? I don't know, something like that.

Lena Robinson (: 46:19

Well this one's going out on the 9th and then it'll be two weeks after that one.

Lena Robinson (: 46:27

Yep. I don't know, haven't got it off the top of my head. Hang on. I'm looking at my diary. One moment please, call it.

David Brown (: 46:35

Yeah, no, that's -that's -we'll figure it out. We'll -we'll talk about it again and we'll put it- we'll put something in the show notes and then you know, obviously on any of the WithAI social accounts and things like that, it will it will come out and and we'll talk about that. And the other thing that I'm going to probably I don't know where I'll talk about it, but probably on socials and stuff is that we the company, media company Future Hand Media, which is my media company, which sponsors the shows and all of that sort of stuff at the minute. That's a good point. We have a sponsor for your show as well. And I know your, I think your gallery is sponsoring the show, which is excellent. So that's gonna be good. Yep, one of many. I think the other, yeah, so the other thing is, that we're signing up to have a membership to a very, very professional -

Lena Robinson (: 47:12

one of the sponsors, one of many, hopefully.

David Brown (: 47:26

- studio so we'll have access to some studio very high quality studios in London which would be really easy it's near Kings Cross so transport people can get in from all over the world actually within walking distance of our studio that we'll have access to so - probably isn't going to be in the next few episodes, but hopefully as we progress over time, we'll start to have more face -to -face interviews in an actual real studio so we can start to move off of doing the remote recordings and we'll go much more in person.

And I think that's really going to improve the quality of the show and that sort of thing. So we have that to look, you know, we all have that to look forward to the hosts and me and the guests and the audience and everybody. So I think that's going to be better for everybody. And I can't wait.

I'm just signing the paperwork for that today. And yeah, so I'm super excited about it. Yeah, it's amazing. I'm gonna post some of that stuff on our social accounts and everybody can see and I'll probably do a post or two about it. I've got some little video clips I'll try and, I'm not very good at doing social content but I'll try and make something exciting. yeah, no, I can't wait. And well, thank you very much. I'm glad -

Lena Robinson (: 48:15

It looks really good, can you show me the photos?

David Brown (: 48:38

I'm glad we had this chat and I'm glad you got to introduce yourself a little bit more actually to everybody. And then next time everybody will be listening to you talking to Tom.

Lena Robinson (: 48:50

I'm really excited. I think the opportunity is huge. I think where we can go with it is going to be pretty amazing. I think we're hitting timing wise is pretty good for the world where it's at, where AI is at as well. I think if we'd done it too early in the switch over, yeah, probably would have been too early. I think we're switching perfectly at the moment. So yeah.

David Brown (: 49:17

Awesome. Thanks, Lena.

Lena Robinson (: 49:18

See you all on the next one. Exciting! See you later. It is. It's gonna be great. Bye.

David Brown (: 49:22

Yeah, we'll speak to you soon. I can't wait. It's going to be fine. It's going to be amazing. Okay. Speak to you soon. Bye.